help through my first ABS print . POWDERED TOAST MAN!

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metrons
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Re: help through my first ABS print . POWDERED TOAST MAN!

Post by metrons » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:27 pm

appreciate the info SO much gang. cheers.

i meant to last night but i was so tired and frustrated i gave up.

Image

Image

with supports.

Image

Image

no support, this is what its (supposed to look like printed)

Image


i'm trying PLA again at the moment. Pla is more forgiving? i read a while ago about the pros and cons to PLA vs ABS but it seemed like ABS was the winner from what i recall? if i should be printing in PLA, then hell yes i'll do that. i had WAY better luck with my previous tests using it.

ABS is a royal pain so far!

metrons
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Re: help through my first ABS print . POWDERED TOAST MAN!

Post by metrons » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:34 pm

jimc wrote:yes an fff or factory file will be needed so we can see your settings. the bed screws should be tightened all the way down to fully compress the spring then level the bed from there. you want the springs as compressed as possible. what happened there is your screw fell out and the nozzle knocked over one or more of the support structures then it was just extruding noodles all over the place. once one structure goes, its all downhill from there. as stated, abs is model specific. i have printed very large pieces in abs without any warp and i have printed other smaller items that end up with tons of warp. very boxy items with corners and straight vertical walls are difficult. your print i would not hesitate to try in abs but on the other hand for what it is i dont see a reason for it to be in abs either.
this sounds super promising. i have a question jim, when do you use ABS and when do you use PLA? i'm about to try and print him in PLA. when i got the printer a few weeks ago i printed a few things and they basically printed incredible with zero effort. i think i was in this headspace that ABS is great but, i'm learning its maybe only great for some prints? love all the help. thanks everyone.

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jimc
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Re: help through my first ABS print . POWDERED TOAST MAN!

Post by jimc » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:03 am

Ok what we need is your fff file so we can see the settings you used for abs. This is just your profile. Export the abs profile you used, zip it and post it here. I think your problem was the screw but it would be nice for us to be able to double check your settings. Pla is more forgiving but abs is stronger with higher heat resistance. Pla is prob better for figurines like what your printing there unless its going to sit on the dash of your car or something.

metrons
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Re: help through my first ABS print . POWDERED TOAST MAN!

Post by metrons » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:08 am

probably all stuff i should have posted before. i'm so new to this, please bare with me.

here is my abs file ive been tinkering with. my printer bed springs are much more snug now as this PLA cube test is going on. if this works i'm going to try PTM with PLA. . .
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xo2hmuohsw6cq ... t.fff?dl=0

my end goal btw is to use M2 to print great quality prints, then make a mold of them and eventually i can create more from a high quality mold. thats a ways a away but thats my goal.

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Re: help through my first ABS print . POWDERED TOAST MAN!

Post by jimc » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:04 am

i took a look at it. just a couple things, maybe i am missing it but did you have the bed heat on? looks like you have it set to 0...maybe. abs you need the bed set to around 90-100c. there are a couple other things i noticed which will cause an issue. the nozzle is set to .35 dia which is right but the extrusion width is at .35 as well. you can get away with this but can cause issues. the width should be wider than the nozzle. .42 or wider. wider is better for overhangs. i would bump that up on this print to maybe .48 or so. it will help a little. if the filament dia is set correctly to your filament then your ext multiplier look a little high. bring that down to 1. you'll need to tweak it from there. for ooze control settings, try these: retraction 2mm, coast 2mm, wipe turn on to default of 5mm. this wont be perfect but should give you a little start on tuning. i think it was set right but also be sure you set the perimeter to print inside then outside.

metrons
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Re: help through my first ABS print . POWDERED TOAST MAN!

Post by metrons » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:07 am

i'm going to try this out now jim.

i did have the bed heat on. yes. i have it set to 95c i believe.

should i be messing with the printer speed? the x y speed is 18,000 and z 1200. i wonder if i slow the printer down will i have better results. that makes sense to me. . . putting in your settings (hope i can do this) and i'll try again. thanks jim!

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Re: help through my first ABS print . POWDERED TOAST MAN!

Post by jimc » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:11 am

z is fine. 18000 is a bit fast for me. mine is 1/2 that at 9000.

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Re: help through my first ABS print . POWDERED TOAST MAN!

Post by jsc » Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:20 am

300 mm/s (I find it easier to think in terms of /s since that is what almost everybody uses) is nearing the absolute limits of printing speed. I like to print conservatively at no more than 80 mm/s. It is a sliding scale of print times vs. quality. For boxes and brackets and things, bang them out as fast as it can go, but for figures, print slower for better quality.

You may want to check out some of the published FFF profiles, there are a few links on the "M2 tips" thread in the tips forum. I believe jimc's are in there somewhere, and a lot of people have used rsilvers' profiles linked on Thingiverse as a good place to start.

I would recommend you get comfortable with PLA before trying too much ABS. It is easier to work with and you will have fewer adhesion and warping issues. One advantage of ABS over PLA for figures is that you can use acetone vapor to smooth it (see my recent thread), and overhangs seem to print without as much curling for me, but that's about it. If you want a smooth model, try a few coats of high build automotive primer and sand it back down to the plastic.

For a large build, you could also consider printing in sections and joining the sections afterwards. That can reduce the need for support by printing different parts in different orientations, and since you are interested in making a mold the different thread orientations won't matter as much to you if you are going to post process them.

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Capt. John
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Re: help through my first ABS print . POWDERED TOAST MAN!

Post by Capt. John » Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:13 am

ABS without a windscreen, or a box to keep the print warm does not work for me.
Ambient room temp should be in the mid 70s F. With winter in Michigan now,
had to move my printer into the utility room where it's lot warmer than my work shop.

Infill at 10% is a long ways to stretch filament in some cases.
100C bed temp does not work for me, 110C does with Aquanet hair spray in the can.

Which incidentally works with PLA and PET+ too. I see a lot people have "stick to the
bed issues" and that's one area that doesn't plague me. Trick with the hair spray
is NOT to clean the glass very often and re-coat liberally.

Supports in S3D can be helped by changing the angles, size and infill percentage of supports.
I found 4mm support did best for me and lots of manual placement after S3D
pushes out the first model. Noticed in the screen shot the elbows were not supported,
click add manual support and add to help in the elbow area. Don't see the need for a raft
on the big part of the model. No raft means the base should come out flat and perfect.
Print the toast heads separately on a raft, or lay flat and sandwich together, once again
eliminating the raft.

First layer setting is very important with ABS, I go 150% at 60% speed and do not
have issues when I print my diver rings with the base lifting.
Over 150 ABS diver rings says I'm learning and perfecting. My rings are bonded to
the bed so hard, seen the prints pull up glass shards and shoot across the room
when the model cools.

Printed a good 30 pounds of filament in ABS. ABS does not sand very well
and has a tendency to ball up when you use a high speed dremel type die grinder to
speed the smoothing process along. PET does accept sanding/grinding better.

Big giant ABS prints are going to be difficult until you develop a recipe that works
for you. Some colors in ABS are a little more tricky to work with. Black is very
easy, some other colors are not.

For fail safe printing go to PET+ with jimc's settings and you'll be toasting
Mr. Toastman! Don't like the colors in PET? No big deal, never seen a plastic
that would accept lacquer and enamel like PET. It's like the PET sucks it in.
Capt. John
Manistee, Michigan
Reel Amateur at 3D printing
Fishing Tackle Manufacturer & Webmaster for:
http://www.michiganangler.com
http://www.michigansportsman.com

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Capt. John
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Re: help through my first ABS print . POWDERED TOAST MAN!

Post by Capt. John » Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:44 pm

Had screws fall out on me before, then seen a post here about snugging up ALL the allen sets/screws, and backing
off ...slightly, as necessary to achieve a level build bed.

Seen you some of you models broke loose of the bed too. That glue stick stuff seen in one
of your pics don't work for me either.

Shifting in prints can also happen when the extruder motor mount breaks. This drive motor gets warm,
maybe hot to the touch and the original is known to fail. Made one out of PET and this hasn't happened to me again
300-400 hours of printer use later. PET is more resistant to heat and stronger. If anyone here hasn't tried
PET, now is a good time to look into this amazing filament.

All the stuff/issues that caused metron's print to fail have happened to me.

Printing the toast heads in the vertical is something I wouldn't even attempt.
Capt. John
Manistee, Michigan
Reel Amateur at 3D printing
Fishing Tackle Manufacturer & Webmaster for:
http://www.michiganangler.com
http://www.michigansportsman.com

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