E3D V6's no longer come with 40watt heaters by default

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Farr0wn3d
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Re: E3D V6 default heater cartridge rating

Post by Farr0wn3d » Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:51 pm

Insta, PETG I was using the bed fan to aid in bridging

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Farr0wn3d
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Re: E3D V6 default heater cartridge rating

Post by Farr0wn3d » Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:53 pm

Kulturfoiger, the resistance is 23 Ohm

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jimc
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Re: E3D V6 default heater cartridge rating

Post by jimc » Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:43 pm

you guys should not have a problem holding 250 with the bed fan on. A 40 watt heater is pretty
Much standard on every make and model printer out there. A 40 watt cartride should laugh at your bed fan and keep goin. If your having trouble you need to check that max pid setting and maybe do an auto tune. Gor the e3d just take you makergear cartride out and use it in the e3d. Its the same dia only a touch longer. Works fine. I did it with one if mine.

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ednisley
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Re: E3D V6 default heater cartridge rating

Post by ednisley » Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:43 pm

Kulturfolger wrote:The resistance of the resistor should be 5.76 Ohm. This would give you 50 Watt with the 24V Powersupply
CAUTION!

The power dissipation goes up as the square of the voltage, so a cartridge heater that dissipates 25 W at 12 V will dissipate 100 W at 24 V. That's much higher than its rated dissipation, far more than you need, and cannot be compensated by dinking with the maximum PWM setting.

In that situation, a firmware glitch or a MOSFET failing shorted will cause serious damage. I converted my Thing-O-Matic to use cartridge heaters and added a thermal cutout relay, but noticed one runaway before it tripped the cutout or melted anything:
http://softsolder.com/2011/06/07/thing- ... l-runaway/

You can also figure the power by dividing the square of the voltage by the resistance: V^2/R. In this case, 24^2/5.76 = 100 W.

The heating element resistance generally has a positive temperature coefficient: as it heats up, the resistance increases and the power goes down. It won't vary by much, but if you measure the actual power at the operating temperature, you'll see somewhat less than you expect.
Last edited by ednisley on Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jimc
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Re: E3D V6 default heater cartridge rating

Post by jimc » Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:25 pm

yeah what i was getting at was for the stock makergear 24v 40w heater. if they are having trouble holding temp with that then the firmware max pid might be set to limit current going to the heater and its not actually getting 24v. should just check where that value is set to be sure its right. that heater should temp without breaking a sweat. of course it could just be swaying too much because the pid values are off as well. maybe it was tuned at 190 and not at 250. in any case your right, if your using a 12v heater on a 24v system you dont want to just increase the max pid and dump more power into the heater than what its rated for to try and maintain temp.

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Re: E3D V6 default heater cartridge rating

Post by Kulturfolger » Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:28 pm

Oops, I am sorry, Ed (I love your blog!) is absolutly right with the output power. I am routine-blinded. I got a few 100W heaters running and use the firmware to limit the maximum output (how many power-on-time within a given second) so the temperature does not overshot.

A MOSFET failing will always be an issue but the more common error is an pulled out thermistor or a broken wire. The first thing I did was removing the v3b Hotend as the thermistor is only secured by the straps gripping all four wires together. If anyone is interested I am willing to kill the e3d hotend by directly appling 24V and see what happends. Or I will pull the thermistor out mid-print and we will take a look at the hotend till something happends.

Broken wires tend to happen when there is stress on the wires, constant bending and connectors trying to pull the wire straight. I got dozens of nopheads (Chris, the creater of the mendel90) hotend pcbs to remove every free "in the air" connector. I've removed every connector (even the fans connector as the fuse would not kick in on those thin wires) and the hidden connectors inside woven fabric pipe. I always do a visual inspection after and before each print as my fume hood extracts the smell of molten connectors.

PS: My makergear printer sits in a forge, my house used to be a blacksmith's workshop. Its not in use anymore for the original use and got neat glass doors with heat-resistant glass. I only store the role of filament currently in use inside the forge. I cannot unterstand people sleeping while the printer is running unattended on a wooden kitchen table with a printhead at or above 451 fahrenheit (the autoignition point of paper, we all know the movie). ABS will melt then boil, at which point the vapors burst into intense, hot flames and create carbon monoxide and hydron cyanide. I'm a first responder with a rural fire volunteer fire department and I know what fires can do to people and know about the potential danger.

I can only encourage everyone (especially with a 3D printer) should at least get a fire blanket next to the printer and as many smoke detectors as needed to cover up every place where one could sleep. They can bought networked which might confuse in the first place but give you more time to evacuate as one smoke detector turns on the alarm on all smoke detectors at once. Without them you will loose consciousness my carbon monoxide intoxication before the smell could wake you up.

Ingo
Feel free to correct my mistakes. English is not my native language.

ErikAkia
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Re: E3D V6's no longer come with 40watt heaters by default

Post by ErikAkia » Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:33 am

When I ordered my e3d v6's from filastruder they came with the red heaters. I am still on the older 12/19V power system and so I got the 12 volt heater and they were both red which I guess that means they are 40 watt. That was last October. One of the small fans would not even turn on with a 12 volt source and I had problems with the other one running from the PWM source of the printer. I talked to Tim about it and he could care less. It was not a good exchange and I will never order from them again. I Highly recommend that you find your e3d somewhere else.

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Re: E3D V6's no longer come with 40watt heaters by default

Post by jimc » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:06 pm

Yes i always buy from matt at printed solid.

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Farr0wn3d
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Re: E3D V6's no longer come with 40watt heaters by default

Post by Farr0wn3d » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:11 pm

So what you're saying is that printed solid is a good company to deal with, and they're an e3d dealer?

I dont plan on returning to filastruder again, so if printed solid is a good place to go I'll check them out for the next one

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Re: E3D V6's no longer come with 40watt heaters by default

Post by jimc » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:27 pm

Absolutely. Matt is awesome to deal with. Cant recommend them enough. E3d has changed the fans they use quite a few times. Just as erik said, ive gotten some that work great and some that only make it a wek and some not at all. Its all because the pwm. Some fans just dont like it and they overheat with it if not run at full power.

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