First print-- issues with tallthin.g from the SD card...

Need some assistance getting started...post here...
minusbacon
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Re: First print-- issues with tallthin.g from the SD card...

Post by minusbacon » Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:24 am

Jules wrote: Have as much experience printing as the folks at MakerGear. The reason their print looks a lot better is, they've been doing it a lot longer. Don't wait to run other prints until you get to that point - it's running the other prints that will get you to that point. ;)

There are some settings that you need to adjust to fix a couple of the issues on your print:

1. Adjust the width of the extruded thread to fix the gap problem between the walls. It looks to me like it had an extruded width that is too high (like 0.5mm), and the total width of the wall is only 1.4mm. So S3D dropped the middle thread. (If it can't fit it in, it drops it.) Change your extruded width to 0.4mm, and the layer height to 0.2mm. You'll probably get a solid wall. (And if you don't - stop the print. You don't have to print the whole thing if something is amiss.)

2. You need to adjust your retraction settings to minimize that line of blobs that appear at the start of the layers. For PLA, that is all that is generally needed. The ones that come on the SD card are probably just a generic setting - they will give you a print, but it's not going to be the best quality for the filament that you are printing now.

3. Learning to adjust the settings in S3D to give you the best result for whatever filament you are printing (and it changes for each spool) is the main thing we do in the beginning. The best way to learn it is to jump in and start printing - but use something small at first, like the calibration squares. The very first thing you should do is calibrate the extrusion width (and height) for that roll of filament, and you do that for every new spool. It will get you familiar with how the machine operates and not take a tremendous amount of time. Save those settings as a profile in S3D. Then use that whenever you print from that spool.

4. Plan on buying more filament. I shot through an entire roll while learning the machine and slicing software. (Might as well order it ahead of time, so you have it when you need it. :lol: )

5. Welcome to the loony bin! When you have questions - ask. There are a lot of guys here who are excellent at talking through even the most beginner of beginners. :D
Thanks for the response Jules!! I know MG's print looks good because they're MG, BUT I figured they made this gcode file which takes out a lot of the guess work for me. I think :)

1. For the two test prints I did, S3D was set to the default M2 settings which are 0.4mm extrude width and 0.2mm layer height. Just to clarify, I'm printing MakerGear's .g file. S3D isn't slicing or anything, I'm just telling M3D to print the .G file from the SD card that MG included with the printer. It was mentioned earlier in this thread that settings are in the gcode file. Does printing this way use the process settings I have set in S3D or is that in the

2. Is adjusting the retraction settings the same as doing the extruder calibration? If not, how do I figure out the proper retraction settings? If the settings coming from the GCODE on the SD card are just generic settings, then I really don't understand how MakerGear got a good sample print from my printer using the GCODE files they included. It doesn't really make sense. I'm printing with the MakerGear branded filament they included with the printer. The same filament they used to make the sample print, other than the color.

3. Extruder calibration is about be done. How is a retraction calibration done? Any other calibrations that should be done every spool or often?

4. I already went overboard in the filament department when I ordered the printer. Didn't realize it at the time of order. But it definitely won't go to waste.

5. Thanks for the welcome and the response! Sorry if my tone sounds off at all in this thread. This is all fun for me but I'm getting frustrated because I just want to print a bunch of stuff!

I tried printing an M2 tool holder from Thingiverse a little while ago. First layer ended up like this...
IMG_2305.JPG
IMG_2305.JPG (141.27 KiB) Viewed 10607 times

minusbacon
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Re: First print-- issues with tallthin.g from the SD card...

Post by minusbacon » Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:27 am

Jules wrote:
minusbacon wrote:I haven't fully done the extruder calibration yet, but I've been thinking about this for the past day. Jsc recommended doing the extruder calibration. I'm not sure if that was just a suggestion for a noob or a possible resolution for my printing issues. If it's a possible resolution, I was thinking about what he said about gcode files having everything needed in them for printing and that S3D settings are only used for gcode files it creates. If I do an extruder calibration and change the process settings in S3D, that isn't going to make a difference when I try printing the tallthin.g again from the SD card again. I don't want to attempt any other prints until I get a print that matches the sample print MakerGear sent.

I was looking at the sample print and my test print again and noticed a couple things. First-- my print is noticeably lighter than the sample print. So it seems like not as much PLA was used for my print as was used for the sample print MakerGear did.

Second-- either the first 4-5 layers on my print are off on the X and/or Y or after these layers the printer makes the rest of the print off. You can see what I mean in the pics below. Blue is the sample from MakerGear, black is my print.

I'm using MakerGear's PLA temp suggestions-- 220 extruder and 70 bed.
No, jin's advice was not just an off-the-cuff suggestion - the first thing you need to do is the extrusion calibration. Without doing that, you haven't got a prayer of matching the sample print.

Every spool of filament is different. They have non-uniform diameters that have to be adjusted using the correct filament diameter and extrusion multipliers. No telling how long ago that SD card file was created, or what kind of nozzle was in use when it was created. I think it's over-extruding based on the results you are seeing. If you don't calibrate, you'll never get rid of the blobs - 'cause those are definitely too much plastic coming out. The first few layers are crammed together - again over-extruding. You need to calibrate.

Also, for PLA, your temps are too high. (Yes those might be the recommended starting settings, but it's not needed and you are always better off extruding on the low side for filaments.)

For PLA if you have a V4 nozzle - try an extruder temp in the 205 - 210 range, and the bed temp in the 40 -50 range. The filament might also be flowing too much because of the temps and getting smashed at the bottom.

For now, don't print directly from the SD card - print over USB. Pull up an .STL file and practice on that, preferably a smaller one. (Matter of fact, I'll post one for you here that you can practice with - it's just a box, but it prints quickly and you can work out some of the kinks using it.) Afterwards, you can print the tall thing from an STL file so your settings change. You want your settings to change - they are incorrect at the moment.)
Color Change Test Box.zip
Thank you so much! Will report back soon!

minusbacon
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Re: First print-- issues with tallthin.g from the SD card...

Post by minusbacon » Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:09 am

Changed the temp to 210/50. First thing I notice when printing is the filament seems more gooey than it did at 220. When the extruder purges before printing and after printing the skirt, it doesn't completely stop extruding and leaves a string from where it stopped to where it starts extruding again. Raise the temp?

Did the extruder calibration. First cube I was getting between .39 - .43 measurements around the cube. I picked .41, did the math and changed the extrusion multiplier to .88. Printed again. This time I measure .40 around most of the cube except a couple spots. One spot near a corner measures .39 and another spot near a different corner measures .43. Everywhere else I measured it's .40. Should I keep adjusting the extrusion multiplier or could this be another issue? Since it's just two corner areas that are off could it be the bed level? Bed seemed level to me the four times I checked it. I ordered a dial indicator so I can level the bed properly. Will be here Tuesday.

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Jules
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Re: First print-- issues with tallthin.g from the SD card...

Post by Jules » Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:18 am

Okay, hang on for a bit. I'm going to type up some instructions for what to do to get started using the machine - probably be ready by tomorrow, but i have to go fix dinner.
(We need them now, not just for you, but because it's getting hard to find the stuff 'cause the forum is growing.)

The picture you showed indicates that the gap is too large between the bed and the nozzle. I'll give some tips for that and the retraction issues in the write-up. :D

minusbacon
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Re: First print-- issues with tallthin.g from the SD card...

Post by minusbacon » Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:26 am

Printed again with extrusion multiplier at .88. On two opposite sides of the cube I'm getting .40. On the other two opposite sides, I get .38/.39 on one side and .41/.42 on the opposite side.

minusbacon
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Re: First print-- issues with tallthin.g from the SD card...

Post by minusbacon » Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:28 am

Jules wrote:Okay, hang on for a bit. I'm going to type up some instructions for what to do to get started using the machine - probably be ready by tomorrow, but i have to go fix dinner.
(We need them now, not just for you, but because it's getting hard to find the stuff 'cause the forum is growing.)

The picture you showed indicates that the gap is too large between the bed and the nozzle. I'll give some tips for that and the retraction issues in the write-up. :D
Thank you sooooo much! I think that's the hardest thing to get started with this stuff. There's no "here's where noobs should start and best 3D printing practices". Would save people from getting frustrated/discouraged and stop them from starting bad habits.

minusbacon
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Re: First print-- issues with tallthin.g from the SD card...

Post by minusbacon » Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:29 am

minusbacon wrote:Printed again with extrusion multiplier at .88 (was on .89 the previous print. Made a typo in my previous post). On two opposite sides of the cube I'm getting .40. On the other two opposite sides, I get .38/.39 on one side and .41/.42 on the opposite side.

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Jules
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Re: First print-- issues with tallthin.g from the SD card...

Post by Jules » Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:42 am

minusbacon wrote:
minusbacon wrote:Printed again with extrusion multiplier at .88 (was on .89 the previous print. Made a typo in my previous post). On two opposite sides of the cube I'm getting .40. On the other two opposite sides, I get .38/.39 on one side and .41/.42 on the opposite side.
Measure only at the top, in the flat middle of the squares, not at the corners. They are always a bit different at the corner.

Those numbers average to 0.40 - and you really don't have to get it any closer. Use a multiplier of 0.88 or 0.89, they will both work just fine. The diameter of the filament itself is going to change - you can't get it any closer than that.

:D

minusbacon
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Re: First print-- issues with tallthin.g from the SD card...

Post by minusbacon » Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:51 am

I was taking two measurements per side. Calibration thread said 'take several measurements' so I took some extra. Guess I'm overreacting a bit. :) The starter of that thread said his measurements were .40 around the whole cube after changing his multiplier. Why are mine uniform on two sides but >.40 on one side and <.40 on the other?

How do I change print speed in Simplify3D? Is changing the speed a typical setting tweak? I've seen some print instructions similar to "50 mm/s perimeters, 70 mm/s infill" and trying to figure out where you actually change speed. S3D uses mm/min. Is there more than simple math to figure out S3D settings?

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insta
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Re: First print-- issues with tallthin.g from the SD card...

Post by insta » Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:01 am

minusbacon wrote:I was taking two measurements per side. Calibration thread said 'take several measurements' so I took some extra. Guess I'm overreacting a bit. :) The starter of that thread said his measurements were .40 around the whole cube after changing his multiplier. Why are mine uniform on two sides but >.40 on one side and <.40 on the other?

How do I change print speed in Simplify3D? Is changing the speed a typical setting tweak? I've seen some print instructions similar to "50 mm/s perimeters, 70 mm/s infill" and trying to figure out where you actually change speed. S3D uses mm/min. Is there more than simple math to figure out S3D settings?
I bet your hotend isnt' exactly 90 degrees from the bed. I bet it's rotated in the holder ... check that.

Also, there's a setting in S3D's options to go to mm/sec. It's a much more practical unit for 3D printers.
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